LebGeeks

mir

Member

Juggling with packets!

I donno how many of u read this paper, but it is a nice read.
and since many ppl were asking about internet storage or internet hard disk stuff..here comes the answer,but it is bit complicated (hehe sign up to that free account,yet this is
an alternative )

==============================================
Juggling with packets: floating data storage
==============================================

Juggling != being a jigolo or jagal

I actually read it a long time ago,today i was browsing my computer for a certain file and re-read it
every time i read it,i feel like re-reading it,actually i think the concept is pretty nice and innovative.
Plz read the document:
here is the link :
    http://isec.pl/papers/juggling_with_packets.txt
    http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/juggling_with_packets.txt

Immagine urself juggling with oranges,apples,tennis ball.. whatever
then "What if u write a single letter on every orange, and then start juggling? u can then
store more orange-bytes than ur physical capacity (the number of oranges u can hold in ur hands)"

This technique can be used
  ** for regular data storage
  ** for certain privacy-related applications, such as deniable storage with an assured data      destruction mechanism.

By establishing a mechanism for cyclic transmission and reception of chunks of data to and from a number of   remote hosts, it is possible to maintain an arbitrary amount of data
constantly `on the wire', thus establishing a high-capacity volatile medium.

The medium can be used for memory-expensive operations, as a regular
storage, or for handling certain types of sensitive data that are
expected not to leave a physical trail on a hard disk or other
non-volatile media and this does not put any single system under a noticable load

The storage is not suitable for critical data that should be preserved
at all costs, due to the risk of data being lost on network failure.

The authors divided the data storage into:
Class A data storage: memory buffers
Class B data storage: disk queues
and they calculated the Capacity of data storage according to the bandwith:

            Bandwith  | Class A | Class B
           ------------+----------+---------
            28.8 kbps |  105 MB |    2 GB
             256 kbps |  936 MB |   18 GB
               2 Mbps  |  7.3 GB  |  147 GB
             100 Mbps |  365 GB |    7 TB

Wow! pretty amazing!no ?

Since there has been such a long time this paper was out
do u think guys,any of this has come to reality...
and ur comments are mostly welcomed
I hope u share some funny,crazy or innovative readings about computer technologies
yalla,I feel like reading couple of stuff...hope somebody posts somethin intresting

rolf

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

Essentially you're using the buffers of the communication devices (routers, firewalls, etc...) as your storage. I call this stealing, go buy yourself a hard disk
But anyway it's an interesting idea, what's most interesting is that you're pretty sure that nobody will find your information if you store it like that :) So if you have like nuclear secrets to hide and the CIA and KGB (forgot their new name) are following you, that would be a good idea, unless they tap your intenet line :(
No frankly it's really interesting but useless so far... maybe coupled with another finding it will be revolutionnary, i can see a lot of possibilities, but on itself it's pretty daft.

rolf

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

Yeah i'm awaiting for someone else to come with another fiding and stick the ends together and invent something great
Essentially he found out that you can store data on the internet communication network... ok so?
But hey
Electricity was useless without a lamp
Fuel was useless without cars
etc...

mir

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

the process is like a car parking
if u don't have space to park the car
u tell the driver.. rouh 3millak barmeh w rja3 till there is a place
so it is kinda send and receive lool

i think it is funny alternative . and a untracable way to store huge amount of info if u believe in conspiracy theories and such stuff..
hala2 i am not trying at home lol
but it is not "fiable", there is risk on info being lost w such stuff
but it is nice reading  tho ..
yalla maybe rolf u will be the one to add the revolutionary finding.. w we will all be rich and stuff

shu ? somebody tried it  .. planning to lol ?

battikh

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

I don't know if i understood what he meant, but depending on what i understood, it seems to me that it's wrong.
On  10mbps ethernet, 32 bytes take like 100 meters (if 64bytes are for 2x100meters for the late collisions problem). So if you stop time and you look how much data there is on teh cable, you can't have more than 32 bytes.

with teh parking exemple:
the parking is full, u tell teh cars to do a kazdoura
the road of the kazdoura is teh same for all and is 100 meters long. If a car is 4 meters long, you can't have more than 25 extra cars...

so how did he achieve such high capacities? am i wrong somewhere?

rolf

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

I don't know if i understood what he meant, but depending on what i understood, it seems to me that it's wrong.
On  10mbps ethernet, 32 bytes take like 100 meters (if 64bytes are for 2x100meters for the late collisions problem). So if you stop time and you look how much data there is on teh cable, you can't have more than 32 bytes.

with teh parking exemple:
the parking is full, u tell teh cars to do a kazdoura
the road of the kazdoura is teh same for all and is 100 meters long. If a car is 4 meters long, you can't have more than 25 extra cars...

so how did he achieve such high capacities? am i wrong somewhere?

He's also considering network equipment buffers. Most swithches have buffers where they store data for a fraction of a second before forwarding it. More complex equipment like routers have bigger buffers. But all in all these are not huge buffers :) Still if you manage to somehow trick the routers into sending your data around the world, it may be interesting.
To maximize the storage capacity you need a high bandwidth AND high lag connection. The higher the lag, the better. Modems have a high lag, but a low bandwidth, so they're not that good.

In "class B" he's considering disk buffers, for example when you send your mail to a wrong address, the email server will store your email and try to send it for a defined amount of time, and if it fails you'll usually get your message back, hours later.

nuclearcat

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

It is all unreliable. Why?
Example with oranges. In hand you can keep them years. In fly - maximum, hours.
The same with packets, who is being transferred.  For example, the IEEE standard for 100BASE-TX specifies a worst case BER of 10-10. This
means that the number of bit errors should not exceed 1 error in 10,000,000,000bits (10 billion bits) of information. This means 1 byte in 1192 Gbyte transfer.
Sure there is a way to override this, but it needs additional space and CPU power, you can apply FEC and regenerate it each time, when packet recovered.

KingRhye

Member

Re: Juggling with packets!

It's cute, til you add a couple of "Cost" columns to the table, then it becomes ridiculous.